Rebuttal of Pre-Tribulation Position

Rebuttal To The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine

Part I -

[This is a rebuttal by K. Michel Rouse, to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine, as it appeared in "A VOICE in the WILDERNESS" E-zine, February 1996. Attempts have been made to contact the author and a copy of this rebuttal was sent to his email address. The italicized text is the verbatim contents of the "Voice" article as it originally appeared. The rebuttal is shown in "[bright red]". The author of this rebuttal may be contacted at E-mail mikerous@flash.net]

A VOICE in the WILDERNESS

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Commentary February, 1996

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"Post-Trib View Challenged"

"But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming...[the] master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Mat 24:48-51)

[I see a warning given here by the Lord that we should NOT STOP looking for His coming EVEN IF IT SHOULD SEEM THAT HE TARRIES, lest we fall into the pit of the scoffers who say "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." 2 Peter 3:4]

Today we see a proliferation of claims for the "great outpouring of God's Spirit" before His return: Toronto/Vineyard, Laughing Revival, Promise Keepers, Prayer Summits, March for Jesus, Latter Rain, etc.

[The Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is by far the most popular and commonly embraced view of the gathering together of the Church. Many such events and "outpourings" are being organized and carried out by ministries which do in fact espouse a Pre-Tribulation Rapture view as their motivational doctrine. Their contention is to bring as many souls into the Kingdom BEFORE the Pre-Trib Rapture occurs since they believe that THESE ARE THE final days preceding this rapture timing. These outpourings are viewed by them as a last ditch effort, not as preparatory for enduring the 3 1/2 year tribulation.]

Along with these cults which are sweeping along thousands of people down the "broad way" (Mt7:13), teachers and authors are peddling a doctrine which guarantees that these same people will not be "watching" for the return of Christ. It is known theologically as "Post-Tribulation Rapture."

[ I DISAGREE with the author's categorizing these groups and events into one body as cults. Some of the participants and organizers do follow aberrant theologies, but a cult is generally qualified by claiming to have unique or particular interpretational insight into GOD's Word. Furthermore, I cannot see the basis for formulating this thought or theology of "not... watching for the return of Christ" or of Post-Tribulation Rapturism from the details provided. This lack of facts in forming the tenets of doctrine is an all too common occurrence of theologians and supporters of the Pre-Trib view. I believe this is mandated, hopefully unintentionally, in order to force a preconceived outcome. Otherwise, the desired message of the doctrine remains incomplete and cannot stand on it's own. For this reason, the scriptures "chosen to support or validate the doctrine" are often taken and applied out of the context of their theme. When incompleteness still pervades, the need to form and incorporate "cleverly devised fables" into the doctrine becomes paramount to the doctrine's survivability. As for this being the "broad way", there is no "broader way" than the Pre-Trib view which says "come on aboard, the bus is leaving for heaven at any moment, without a sign or warning, you don't have to suffer like Christ, there will be no separation of wheat & tares, no refining the gold & of removing the dross; but don't worry, if you don't make the Pre-Trib bus, our doctrine mandates the necessity of multiple raptures to explain those saved during the tribulation; scripture support?, no, but we'll explain it to you on the way up.

I sincerely apologize, I become frustrated when I think of the mirrors, fables, and "privileged understandings" involved in "making" the Pre-Trib doctrine work. And if anything qualifies as a cult understanding, it is the "privileged insights" offered by Pre-Trib theologians to "explain" their doctrine with outside or extra-Biblical information. More on this later.]

As I have noted this trend, it seems that the primary proof-text for this view is Matthew 24:29-31,

"after the tribulation of those days...the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven...and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

[I prefer to view Matthew 24:29-31 in it's context, for it's completeness: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The danger which arises out of the dismembering of scripture in this manner is that the main thought or subject being conveyed can be often discarded or altered. Since GOD is the author, we should allow Him to establish the "picture." Case-in-point: In their completeness, the above scriptures are describing, in Christ's own words, the timing, with "signs" included, of the rapture event which will follow "the tribulation of those days." In plain English, Christ is saying, as soon as the previously mentioned great tribulation is over, signs and wonders appear in heaven and on earth, men mourning and the Son of Man in the clouds.

What's the significance? 1) You first try to take the scripture literally, as often and as literal as possible. So much of the Pre-Trib doctrine is supposedly based on literal interpretation that this should not be a problem. 2) If other scripture aligns with this scripture either in near verbatim wording, theme or subject context (i.e., rapture, tribulation, signs, etc.), see if it "fits". See if there are apparent or suspected parallels which give light and understanding to each other. 3) Dismiss ANY learning's, understandings, "customs", or "non-beliefs" which have their origin from outside of the scriptures. This information can only be used to "add color" to the picture which GOD has drawn for us in His Word. If we import outside materials for building the foundation of our doctrines, then the foundation is no stronger than the materials used. The picture that GOD may have intended is altered by us. If we can believe 2 Tim. 3:16, then let's take it at face value: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Let us form our doctrines from the scriptures only, and add color with what we "think, see or understand." All scripture is profitable, not all doctrine! Use the scriptures to correct these doctrines, reproof those in error, and instruct in righteousness during the days that will come upon us.

The signs, given in Matthew 24, will occur "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". They will also PRECEDE the gathering of His elect in vs. 31. These signs in Matt 24:29, the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:, parallel in word, theme, and timing the 4th Trumpet of Rev. 8:12, "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." This leaves us with GOD's "picture" that the timing sequence of the "gathering together" follows the tribulation of Matt. 24:29. Also, it is interesting to see that the events of Matt. 24, beginning with vs. 4, do indeed parallel the events of Revelation 6:1-8:14, and that the "signs" in Matt. 24:29 parallel the 4th Trumpet in the series of seven Trumpets. In it's context, the rapture is the next event in Matt. 24, following the "signs".

Lets look at 1Cor. 15:52, the accepted basis for the rapture itself: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. " We have several matches in theme, wording, and general context. The theme of trumpets form the "basis" in 1Cor.15:52 to the trumpet of Mt. 24:31. How does this look next to the "last trump" of Rev. 11:15-18? "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. [16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, [17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. [18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." What does it say? The world's kingdoms have become our Lord's. Doesn't sound as if GOD's wrath has been in control does it? The 24 elders state that He is and still "is to come". Does not appear He has come yet, does it? His wrath is coming, as in still forthcoming. The dead will be judged. The first resurrection is by far the clearest picture of this in the scriptures. To reward "thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,". Sounds like Rev. 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." And finally in Revelation 11:18, "and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE WRATH OF GOD IS ON THE WAY. This is only a portion of the many "similarities" or "coincidences" when it comes to parallel scripture support. DON'T EXPLAIN IT TO MAKE IT FIT, JUST READ IT AND SEE IF IT FALLS INTO PLACE!

The ancient Rabbinics had a saying that went something like this: "There is no such thing as coincidence in the scriptures, when Messiah comes He will not only explain the scriptures, He will explain the spaces between the words." An "incomplete" doctrine founded 100% on scripture will be stronger, wiser, and less likely manipulated than one formed with building blocks of "speculation", "assumption", and "cleverly devised fables."]

False teaching on this subject crept up first during Paul's time and he speaks, "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition," (2 Thes 2:1-3)

[Seems pretty clear that Paul is telling the believers of his day that not only has the rapture NOT occurred, but that it MUST be preceded by the APOSTASIA and the REVEALING of antichrist. Yes, a deception was taking place in that day, but Paul gives the correct order of events to watch for. And since we know from Daniel and Matthew that antichrist isn't revealed until the 3 1/2 year point of Daniel's seventieth week, then the rapture CANNOT OCCUR BEFORE THE MID-TRIB POINT (as it is erroneously called). To believe this, we have to believe the scriptures mean what they say, in the context it is said in. Check out Daniel 11:31; Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15; and Mark 13:14 for more.

Strong's Concordance defines apostasia as "a deflection from the truth." One "twist" on this definition, which is gaining in "popularity" amongst the Pre-Trib speakers today, is that apostasy means "a departure from the truth, or a departure." It's not far for them to summarize from "departure" to "the departure of the Church." That's right, they're saying the apostasy is the rapture! Sounds like this word twist is an apostasy. This "manipulation" of GOD's Word is first noted in an exposition essay by John Walvoord in 1956 when writing from Dallas Theological Seminary for that school's publication Biblicotheca Sacra Theological Journal. Sadly, this twisted word study is regaining popularity due to in part to the fact that 1) any support that can be given to the pre-trib doctrine, regardless as to how vague or obscure, is readily embraced, and 2) Walvoord is hailed as one of the present day fathers of pre-trib rapture theology and his name on it gives it life.

Again, GOD's Word is our ultimate truth in the formulation of our doctrines. An interesting parallel, the deception of Paul's day and the "misinterpretation" of today. ]

Nor let us be deceived, as we look at this subject briefly from three viewpoints: History & Israel, Scriptures & the Church, Prophecy & Logic.

[Watch out when relying on your own understanding. Give consideration as to the logic you are using, yours or GOD's.]

HISTORY & ISRAEL:

In Mt 24, Jesus is speaking to Israel primarily. He was born as a Jew, to the Jews. His disciples had asked Him a "Jewish" question regarding the destruction of the temple and related events. When vs.31 says His "elect" ...this is referring to Israel. (Isa 45:4,65:9,22) (The "Church" is not the only group referred to in this way.)

[A "Jewish question? That's nothing but ultra-dispensationalism. The ultra-dispensation "doctrine" requires separating "Israel" and "the Church" is a sad display of "mans' knowledge" applied to "interpreting" the Holy Scriptures. The teachings of many claim to have "uncovered", "revealed", or otherwise "understood" the "mystery" of the dispensation of Grace in its entire scope as GOD intends it. THIS sounds like a privileged interpretational insight to the scriptures.

YES, Jesus was born a Jew, and His own received Him not. But where in the scriptures does it say that before Messiah returns, the Church must be removed? At what point do we separate and how much of the New Testament is for "all believers"? Where do you place the dotted lines for the scriptures that apply to Gentiles only? or to the Jews only? According to John 16:12, GOD gave us insight into the things we could handle and indicated there were things we could not "bear now." Espousing an "inside" understanding into uncovering the "Mysteries" of GOD is a most dangerous and foolish practice, particularly when lacking contextual scripture support.

Didn't Paul chastise Peter for his prideful instability and wavering faith when he began to prefer "socializing" with the Jews and exclude the Gentiles? Wasn't further warning issued in Galatians 2:18 about reversion to Judaism? "For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor." Christ Himself tells that the Law is not abolished, but fulfilled by His first coming. He also tells us that the Law has been written on our hearts. That applies to ALL mankind to-date.

There is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that these truths will be rescinded, repealed, revoked, or recalled. In Revelation 11:1-2 we see John instructed to build the Temple with provisions for the Gentiles to have a part. This is not an exclusionary or separatist step, but a major move toward unity.

There were approximately 300 prophecies that were fulfilled with the first Advent of Christ. The bulk of those Scriptures are easy to literally discern. Daniel received the prophecy of the EXACT day of His visitation as the going out of the command to rebuild the Holy CITY and the STREETS of the city. It is possible to conclude, from extra-canonical and pseudepigrapha writings, that the Sanhedrin yielded to their own "understanding" and began watching for Messiah some 75 years earlier, when the command to rebuild the Temple was issued in Ezra. In reality, the command to rebuild the CITY and STREETS was granted in the book of Nehemiah by King Artaxerxes.

It is estimated that as many as 2,400 Scriptures will be fulfilled from the time of Christ's ascension to the Father until He establishes the millennial Kingdom on earth.

How many of these prophecies pertain to Israel and have been fulfilled since Christ ascended? Many, beginning with the so-called "Jewish" question of Matthew 24:2-3! Christ foretold to His followers, in Luke 19:41-44, that this Temple would be destroyed because they didn't know He was due to visit. This was a Jewish focused prophecy, yet the Church was not removed. Following this, the "Diaspora" or dispersion of the Jewish nation occurred. Again, the Church was present. At the turn of this century, the World Zionist Organization began buying land in the region called Palestine. Another Jewish prophecy fulfillment. The PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE, Israel becoming a nation, and in one day no less! According to Christ in Matthew 24:32-34, this is GOD's NUMBER ONE SIGN that starts His time-clock countdown to Jesus' return. The shekel has been restored as their unit of money; Hebrew was "resurrected" and mandated as the official language; the land is a "garden of Eden"; the trees are abundant; the wildlife has returned and flourished; the government is by "knesset" or senate instead of a king; certain cities have been restored as foretold; certain cities still do not stand and never will as foretold; the vultures which will partake at Armageddon have returned, are protected and flourishing also; Israel is the constant focus of the world, a burdensome stone without a doubt. THE CHURCH IS STILL HERE and will be until the (Scriptural) coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Other problems and questions which arise out of the ultra-dispensation doctrine are: How can we claim the Abrahamic Covenant if it's Old Testament and "meant for Jews only"? If Israel is allowed blood atonement through animal sacrifices, then must Christ be crucified again to atone their sins? Without playing word games, Israel gets the same chance as everyone else, that is if you use the scriptures to form your doctrine and NOT history, phraseology or figures of speech.

Don't sell GOD short, there are no "literal" scriptures nor any "allegorically discernible" verses which suggest or support the "idea" that the Church MUST be removed in order for Him to "deal" with Israel. If this is so, how do we arrive at this point where we "fill in the blanks" with our own understanding? Proverbs 3:5 says "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Could Romans 15:4 mean that He has given us all the insight within His word that we are to use? "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

How about 2 Tim. 3:16? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Any mention of outside sources in forming doctrines, or instructions, or correction? And 2 Peter 1:16: "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty." Need more be said regarding His second coming? 2 Peter 1:19-21 gives us hope, understanding, and warning: "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

In Acts 17:11, Paul commends the ancient Bereans and says: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." It could be the only source of understanding you'll ever need.]

These "elect" are gathered from the "four winds." A very interesting expression when we note that it was Israel who was scattered "to all the winds." "...I will diminish you, My eye will not spare, nor will I have any pity. One third shall die of pestilence; one-third by the sword; and I will scatter another third to all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them." (Ez5:10,12) We know that Jesus is talking about Israel because Jeremiah further prophesies, "I will gather you from all the nations & the places where I have driven you, says the LORD." (Jer29:14)

[ALL believers are GOD's "elect"; Today, ALL believers are to the "four winds"; At Christ coming, believers will exist in ALL nations due to the Gospel having been preached unto all nations by the "Gospel Angel" of Revelation 14:6-7; And this FINAL sign will occur prior to the rapture in Revelation 14:13-16. Jesus IS talking about Israel as well as the "grafted vine" of the Church, the "adopted" of GOD, "of every nation and kindred and tongue." Why can't He be referring to "both" Israel and the Church? Without a doubt, there are prophecies specific to Israel. But, as indicated previously, GOD CAN and HAS dealt with Israel for 4,000 years without having to remove anything or anyone. ]

SCRIPTURES & the CHURCH:

Those who hold to the "Post-Trib" view also believe that the Church is to be "purified" through the Tribulation. What does Scripture say? "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire...He will sit as a refiner...He will purify the sons of Levi...That they may offer to the LORD; offering in righteousness. (Mal 3:2-3) Who are the "sons of Levi?" Israel; not the Church. Let's not be confused.

[What DOES the scriptures say about the Day of the Lord? Who alone will be exalted during the Day of the Lord? Only the "saved" can endure TO the day of His coming and participate in the rapture; Only the "sealed" can endure THROUGH the Day of the Lord. The starting point and duration of the Tribulation period is already established as the middle of "Daniel's 70th week" to the end of that seven year period. The antichrist is not revealed 'till this midpoint. He wars against the saints. He IS NOT the refiner. The sons of Levi which are purified appear to be the remnant which will be sealed.

Referring to Ezekiel 9 for a parallel to Revelation 7 and the sealing of the 144,000: The "scribe" of Ezekiel 9 is wearing the garment of the priests for that day. The mark is given to and "protects" only those who are lamenting, in sorrow, for the condition of the nation, i.e., Rev. 14:5 "and no guile was found in their mouth." "Coincidentally", the mark which is given to seal them, is an "X" which in that day resembles a cross.

Let's NOT be confused, the Church IS grafted, adopted as part of the family, part of the covenants, heirs to the Kingdom, children of GOD, sons of GOD, sons of Light, compared to a flock, scattered by persecution. There are Old and New Testament scriptures for each category listed. Israel and the Church ARE as close as they can get without becoming one.

Abraham was not born a Jew, he was "made" into a Jew, and his faithfulness was counted unto him as righteousness! Yes, GOD WILL punish Israel for their unfaithfulness, but NO, the Church DOES NOT have to be removed for this to occur.

Read the first chapter of Revelation. It says in vs. 1 that this book was given to show His servants what must come to pass. In vs. 3, blessings are bestowed upon those that read or hear the words of this prophecy. In vs. 7, Christ's coming parallels Matt. 24:31, Rev. 14:13-16, and numerous other verses. Why do you think it was significant for John to tell us he was our brother and companion in TRIBULATION and in the KINGDOM and PATIENCE? Why is the "book" written to the Churches and not Israel or the unsaved world?

The description of Christ, the author of this book to the Churches, is given in verses 13-15 of chapter 1. The description is the same as the man that delivered the prophecies to Daniel in Dan. 10-12. Check this out: Daniel's prophecies parallel those of Matt. 24 and Rev. 6-14 in theme, context, and chronology. They're all in the same order of events, delivered by the same person.

What's confusing is how the ultra-dispensationalists ever got themselves in the place where they had to allegorize Rev. 4:1 to mean the rapture instead of what it simply says: "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hearafter."]

So, what of Jesus' words, "In the world you will have tribulation..?" (Jn16:33) Let us look at this word "tribulation." Tribulation = Great affliction, trial, distress, experience that tests one's endurance, patience or faith. Tribulation is something that Christians have experienced down through the centuries.

[Ditto on the tribulation, I agree. Now, what of enduring? At the mid-point of Christ's Olivet Discourse of the end-times chronology, He gives a statement of comfort and reassurance to believers who will encounter the events He is speaking of. Look at Matthew 24:9-12 and this "beginning of sorrows." Now, look at vs. 13 and see what assurance Jesus offers in the light of "enduring" great tribulation. "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." He is reiterating what He said in Matt. 24:6 when He stated "but the end is not yet."

If you want to see "knowledge abound" then use a computer Bible study program and a word processing program and start matching up scripture parallels. Matt. 24:6 is the parallel to the 2nd Seal of Revelation 6:3-4. Matt. 24:13 occurs sometime after the 6th Seal of Rev. 6: and the end is still not in sight.

Also, in Rev. 2:26, Christ is addressing the Churches with the same message of enduring." "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:" He concludes this segment with "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." The same message you claim is for Israel only in Matthew 24 is also given "unto the churches."

This was only a few verses with the understanding of "endurance". When you cross-reference and then parallel the other verses pertaining to enduring to the end, distress, trials, patience and faith you have compiled a very long and exhaustive insight into the view that the apostles were writing from. They saw "many antichrists amongst" themselves then. They were existing in the midst of "thilipsis", turmoil, pressure, and tribulation. They were expecting Christ's return as "imminent" because they saw the things occurring which were foretold in Daniel and Matthew and Mark and Luke, and by Paul. John did not write until 90-96A.D. All messages given by Christ!]

But this is different from The Tribulation as recorded in The Revelation. "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"(Rev 6:17) Wrath = Agitation, violent emotion, indignation, punishment.

[Revelation 6:17 also translates as "the great day of His wrath is coming, is on the way, is upon us, it cannot be stopped, it's inevitable." Look at Revelation 11:18, it's in the context of the 7th (LAST) trump. [18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." It differentiates from Rev. 6:17 in that it shows THE DEAD HAVE NOT BEEN JUDGED YET, NOR THE "REWARDS" GIVEN. In concluding, it says that the time has come that He "shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." THIS IS THE TIME OF THE FORTHCOMING WRATH OF GOD!, not Rev. 6:17. The Judgment of thirds, represented by the 7 Trumpets, exhibits more of GOD's character of long-suffering than of the aforementioned "Agitation, violent emotion, indignation, or punishment."]

As Paul writes to comfort the "Church" at Thessalonica, "God did not appoint us to wrath.." (1Ths5:9) And if we believe that the Christian experience is a "love" relationship with God, "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18) The time of God's Wrath will involve fear. ...[people] "hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" (Rev 6:15-17)

[Again, careful and thorough examination of the Scriptures will reveal: (1) Just because man cries out in Revelation 6:17 and thinks this is the time of GOD's Wrath does not mean it is time. This is what should be expected during such a time that Christ described in Matthew 24:15-29 as great tribulation. According to Matthew 24:15, this will not start until the abomination that makes desolate spoken of by Daniel. Check it again, it is the same wording, theme, chronology, and context as Daniel, Revelation, Ezekiel, etc. (2) On the other hand, when the statement regarding Christ's coming, GOD's wrath, the time of Judging the dead, and rewarding the living are all made by "great voices in heaven,", that adds "weight of evidence" to the determination that THIS is the time when THESE THINGS shall be set into motion. Here's Rev. 11:15-18 again, check it for yourself: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. [16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, [17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. [18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."]

If one reads the "whole" of the Old Testament Prophets and compares it to the book of Revelation, one can see striking similarities...and one can come away realizing that this is a time of God's dealing with Israel. The Church needs to be out of the way for this. The Church, at one with the Holy Spirit because of the Holy Spirit's indwelling, is "taken out of the way" (2Ths2:7) ...and [THEN] the lawless one will be revealed.

[There are innumerable similarities between ALL of the Old and New Testaments. It also goes much deeper than just GOD dealing with Israel. Bible scholars since the time of Christ have expressed how "in the Old Testament the New Testament is concealed; in the New Testament, the Old Testament is revealed." That is a TRUTH which is seen in all aspects of scripture supporting scripture, scripture explaining scripture, and scripture revealing scripture. The commonly used reference of 2 Thess. 2:7 to infer that "the Church needs to be out of the way for... God's dealing with Israel" is purely conjecture and without ANY scriptural support. The Church only NEEDS to be out of the way for this doctrine to work! " ....he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way" gives no insight as who or whom this could be referring. In the context of the chapter in which it is written, it clearly does give insight as to the timing of " ...he be taken out of the way".

As discussed earlier, Paul is addressing those who received deceptive writings about the timing of the rapture. He emphasized to "let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." We know from Daniel that "the son of perdition" is the antichrist and is revealed at the 3 1/2 year point of Daniel's 70th week. And there is scriptural support that the "restrainer", as he is known, may be Michael, the Archangel, the traditional protector of Israel.

Removal of the Holy Spirit creates as many questions and theological problems as the ultra-dispensation doctrine does. The early Church not only lived through a number of antichrists as told in 1 John 2:18-20, but were also told that "an unction from the Holy One" would aid them to know all things concerning the antichrists. That is why Christ gives REPEATED EMPHASIS in Matthew 24 regarding the false prophets to come. If it is possible, He Said, even the VERY ELECT will be deceived. With that strong of a warning, do you think that this "deception" will be possible? Perhaps not for you or I, but consider the believers without the WHOLE TRUTH of the scriptures for strength, wisdom, and discernment of the times.]

The Church, at one with the Holy Spirit because of the Holy Spirit's indwelling, is "taken out of the way" (2Ths2:7) ...and [THEN] the lawless one will be revealed.

[It generates more questions than it could possibly have answers for. Was the Holy Spirit part of the Old Testament? Check out: Zec. 4:6; 12:10; Ezek. 36:27; 39:29; Isa. 32:15; 59:21; Joel 2:28.

These few references, of very many, relate to the time you say "is for Israel". If the Holy Spirit comes back for the tribulation saints of the 5th Seal, will He restrain antichrist again?

Doctrines formed outside of scripture require ever increasing additions to the understanding" in order to stand. It just doesn't work.]

PROPHECY & LOGIC:

Assuming for a moment that the Rapture [WAS] to be [AFTER] the time of God's Wrath, then Jesus' words describing the "Sign of His Coming"..."of that day and hour [no one knows]" (Mt24:36) would be utterly meaningless. Daniel prophesies, "But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." This "week" is the 7-year period, fulfilling Daniel's prophecies. We could count 3 1/2 years til Messiah would return. (Dan12:7,Rev12:14) Or, 42 months (Rev 11:2,13:5). Or, 1,260 days (Rev 12:6).

[No assumption is necessary, the Rapture DOES NOT occur after the wrath. It is recognized in 1Thes. 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,". The assumption is that the wrath of GOD begins when man says it does, as in Rev. 6:17. The use of I.S. or isolated scripture in the formulation and support of doctrinal beliefs is a questionable practice. On the other hand, W.O.E., or weight of evidence relies upon scripture supporting scripture, context, theme, deliverer, and/or the message, etc.

In respect to the use of LOGIC in the above context, Christ gave a chronology of events to watch for that He said would PRECEDE His gathering of the "elect". Even without the word games of "who is the Church, who is Israel, who are the elect, what are the trumpets," it should be clear that Jesus did indeed outline the signs that HE said would be our gauge for understanding the general climate and timeframe of His coming. He didn't give any indication of the day or hour.

The parameters of interpretation used to determine the following are so flexible and elusive that Scripture is being made to fit where and when it is needed: "who and when: is the Church the Church, and Israel is Israel, the "elect" is the Church or Israel or tribulation saints, and why the trumpets of Revelation aren't the trumpets announcing His return"? Review Matthew 24:22 and see if your logic can agree that Christ is telling us that "... those days should be shortened," "for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" and WE WILL NOT KNOW THE DAY OR HOUR BUT that we should know the general timeframe.

The statement that "no one knows" the day or hour of His coming has been taken out of context in a way that makes an untrue statement. In it's context we see that no man or angel knows the day or hour, "BUT MY FATHER ONLY". That timing is known and reflected in Revelation 14:13-16, and no day or hour is given.]

But, "of that day and hour NO ONE KNOWS." "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. "For as in the days [BEFORE] the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage..." LIFE WILL APPEAR TO BE NORMAL "...until the day that Noah entered the ark," and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Mat 24:37-39) And Luke 17:30 speaks of it, "when the Son of Man is [REVEALED]." Remember, the book of Revelation, the whole seven years, is introduced as "The Revelation [OF] Jesus Christ."

["LIFE WILL APPEAR TO BE NORMAL," that is, as normal as it could appear when Noah spent approximately 100 years building the Ark and thereby proclaiming the forthcoming Judgment of GOD during that time span. (As an interesting cross-reference and side note, look for the other scriptures in Genesis where an approx. 100 year span is used to indicate the span of a generation.) There was ONE GATHERING, ONE OPPORTUNITY FOR SALVATION. "As the days of Noe were... " reflects a time when the world rejected the message of repentance and salvation because they could not "literally" except the message or messenger. The 8 on the Ark were delivered THROUGH the time of GOD's Judgment. View Matthew 24:38 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,". If the flood truly represented the Judgment or Wrath of GOD, it is equally noteworthy that His Wrath did not fall until the last day! Again, Luke 17:27 emphasizes the Judgment even more: "They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." In Hebrews 11:7, Noah's "faith" transcends this 100+year period of tribulation, only to become the heir of righteousness on the last day: "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." 1 Peter 3:20 indicates GOD's restraint toward His long-suffering to deliver His Wrath AFTER all possible time, reasoning, and opportunities have been exhausted: "... when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

All events as "literally" foretold. In ALL instances where the Bible quotes itself, it is portrayed and interpreted as "literal".

Along this same line of context, we are reminded to "remember Lot's wife."

What could be the significance of remembering this woman which was so close to "salvation", yet whose faith did not transcend her "worldly" desires? She was afforded the same opportunity to escape God's wrath, to come as everyone else in that scope of GOD's Judgment. That was ONE opportunity. In parallel theology, GOD is coming for a Bride which is spotless and blameless, not one that has to "think this through" or be given "multiple chances to decide". Once I had seen the "errors" of the "ultra dispensational" and Pre-Tribulation" theologies, I recognized the need more than ever to "be ye Holy even as I am Holy". It is a call to Holiness. When the Lord comes, will He find faith?]

BE PREPARED:

"Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."(Luke 21:36)

[In it's context, the warning of Luke 21:36 refers to vss. 34 and 35. Take a look: [34] "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [35] For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Look at these cross-references and notice that the warning is not against thinking that the Lord will tarry or delay, but against "falling asleep", against "eating and drinking with the drunken", against falling into sin. Matt. 24:48-50; Luke 12:45-46; 1Thes. 5:3; 1Thes. 5:6-7]

"Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. "Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. (Mat 24:40-42)

[If you read and take the scriptures literally and IN THEIR CONTEXT, you will know the season.]

For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon [THEM] (not "us")...as labor pains ...And [THEY] shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober....putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. (1 Thessalonians 5)

[Yes, the thief is coming. Do you really know when? Rev. 16:15-17 "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. [16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. [17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done." He comes as a thief to those that were not ready for our rapturing.

The time when the Seals are being broken is often misread as the Wrath of GOD. In fact, these scriptures clearly show that GOD IS NOT JUDGING or AVENGING the "tribulation martyrs". They are then told "that they should rest yet for a little season". Watch the breakdown: Rev. 6:9-11 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. "

The 5th seal and the tribulation martyr saints cry for vengeance. This is not GOD's time of wrath.

Rev. 7:13-14 shows tribulation saints "in Heaven" past the point of the 6th Seal, past the misunderstanding of Rev. 6:17 and the supposed time of GOD's Wrath: "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? [14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Rev. 8:1 initiates a most solemn time in heaven. Could the earthly martyrdom be the cause? "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

Rev. 8:3 implies that the prayers of the saints are still going up to heaven. "And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."

Rev. 8:12 presents the same signs Christ said would precede His coming for the Church.

"And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

Rev. 9:20-21 gives us the impression that men still remain unrepentant following the plagues of the trumpets: "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."

Does this scripture imply that man is not afforded the opportunity to repent or that they simply choose to not repent? The availability to repent implies salvation availability.

Rev. 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." The 7th Trumpet angel and the mystery of GOD will be finished. Could this be reference to the rapture, the end of the age?

Rev. 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

Accommodated for the gentiles? the Church? neither Jew nor Greek?

Rev. 11:15-18 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. [16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, [17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. [18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

It speaks for itself. The Lord is forthcoming, wrath is coming, the dead Judged, the believers rewarded, destroyers destroyed. Praise His Holy Name, His Word is true!

Rev. 13:7-9 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. [8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. [9] If any man have an ear, let him hear. "

Even in the allegoric explanations, it seems clear. Saints overcome, and all will worship antichrist, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. It doesn't say everyone will worship, it specifies. If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Rev. 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

If the Church is not here, who has the need or the wisdom to discern this danger?

Rev. 14:6-7 "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Gospel angel preaching the Gospel until "the hour of his judgment is come."

Rev. 14:12-16 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. [13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. [15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. [16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."

HARVEST OF THE SAINTS! He comes for the Church. Check it out and compare with the Lord's own words again:

Matthew 13:36-43 "Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. [37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; [38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; [39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. [40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. [41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; [42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Rev. 15:2-4 "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. [3] And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. [4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest."

Confirmation of the saints in heaven before the Wrath can be delivered.

Rev. 16:15-17 "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. [16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. [17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done." Behold the thief, he comes with the finale of GOD's wrath!

It is my sincere and humble prayer that GOD's truth be foremost and paramount as we study His Word. May we seek first His kingdom, may we use all that He has provided in His Word and not yield to our own desires and understandings. In this way, may we give him all the Glory even by our actions. In the Name of Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen.]